All the Islam That's Unfit to Print

While the inward American Left still shudders from occasional paroxysms of apoplexy over Hitlerian, jack-booted thugs removing t-shirts from the Capitol on Tuesday night, the rest of the western world turns its eyes further east this week as one of the core foundations of liberal democracy comes under orchestrated attack by Islamic nation states and the real, tangible shadows of fascism.

When a Danish newspaper published editorial cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad, a firestorm erupted in the Muslim world. Artistic likenessess of the founding father of the religion are strictly verboten. Islamic governments and culture at large reacted with characteristic aplomb, attacking embassies, threatening to kidnap and execute foreigners, demanding apologies and groveling from European governments, and generally being their peaceful selves. Egypt dispensed with formalities and addressed the controversy with a bit of straight-forward Euro-speak. While the politicians fell over themselves apologizing for freedom of expression, European publications are standing firm.

In a somewhat related story, Richard J. Rosendall of the Independent Gay Forum recently wrote a piece wondering what on earth gay people and organizations are doing supporting Palestinians over a liberal democracy. Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism have called for a boycott of World Pride 2006 scheduled to be held in Jerusalem. The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission characteristically picked Leftist politics over gay rights, supporting a violently homophobic Palestinian culture that would kill them over a liberal Israel that protects gay rights. As the author notes, wrapping this decision in human rights rhetoric counts not at all considering the IGLHRC attended rallies in Beijing and Havana.

Given the first story in this post, I am beginning to doubt many of these queer organizations are, in fact, liberal. Supporting cultures that would squelch free expression while persecuting gays seems like more "solidarity in oppression" agitprop.

Last, but definitely not least, I decided to toss up one of the editorial cartoons depicting Mohammed, because, well, fuck 'em. Free expression must always trump offense and the cult of victimology, even if Islamic culture has unravelled the code speak our own radical queers use when siding with far left-wing causes that would reduce freedoms under the guise of gay and human rights.

h/t Queer Conservative

Comments

[Jack Malebranche]

What's the big deal, yo? That's totally funny.

[john]

This is just stupid. While I don't support the Palestinians in squelching free speech or killing gays I do support their right to basic human rights. According to you I should just accept their brutal and inhmane treatment because I don't agree with their politics. It's okay that they have their land stolen from them, their houses bulldozed, their people slaughtered because hey, they don't support free speech and they kill gays. Baloney! I support the right of the Palestinians to be free from Israeli occupation, just as I support the people of Tibet being free from occupation by China, just as I supported the people of Kuwait in being free from the occupation of Iraq and the right of Iraqis to be free from the occupation of the US. I also support the gay people under each of these countries to be free from harrassment and death by the dominant culture/government. I also support the right of Israel to exist in peace. Why on earth should we not support any of this? My support of basic human rights goes for everyone - it's not dependent on their behaivior. And if the people of Venezuela want a socialist government more power to them. I think they are stupid for it, but its their country and their lives. Same with Cuba. Why on earth should the US sit in judgement of the rest of the world? Shouldn't we allow them the freedom to decide for themselves what type of government they want?

[Dan (AKA GayPatriotWest)]

Robbie, is this International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission one of the groups that the U.S. voted not to credential at the U.N.?

[Dan (AKA GayPatriotWest)]

Robbie, is this International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission one of the groups that the U.S. voted not to credential at the U.N.?

[Robbie]

John, that's a pretty piece of rhetoric, but I'd love to know why Israel is constantly singled out by every lefty organization under the sun, including these gay groups, when they have shown they've had no problem partying it up in Beijing and Havana.

Israel withdrew from Gaza. The result? A new terrorist government that just today reiterated they want to wipe Israel off the map. A Palestinian culture that is still violent and still virulently homophobic. "But what about the wall!" If people in Indiana were crossing over the Illinois border to blow up the local Pizza Hut, I'd want a damn wall, too.

At issue here should've been World Pride 2006. Instead, a major gay organization signs onto a bunch of left-wing bullshit that has nothing to do with gay rights and everything to do with moonbat politics. And, again, they can't do the human rights song and dance when they didn't take issue with celebrations in China and Cuba.

Sorry, if a gay organization is actively going to pick sides in a fight, I want them to be on the gay friendly, democratic side. Not with the murderous purveyors of hatred who would see every homosexual and Jew beheaded if they had their way. I guess I'm all sorts of right-wing like that.

Dan - No idea.

[Jay Croce]

>>Artistic likenessess of the founding father of the religion are strictly verboten.

Killing innocent people is a good thing, but drawing a picture of Big Mo is a big no no. I'm beginning to get the deeper meaning of Islam. I really am. No kidding.

My mother asks this question:

What I want to know, is when they recruit women homocide bombers...........like the one last month who screwed up and failed to detonate her bomb............what the hell was she going to do with 30 Virgins? Start the Rockettes? Surely to Shirley, she wasn't a religious Lesbian? Well, maybe so!!

Islam is as Islam does. That's what I say.

[Dan]

Dan (the other one) -

You're thinking of the International Gay and Lesbian Association. Far more mainstream, much less moonbat. Tho I'm sure you'll find something objectionable about them in no time.

[Erick]

A shame that some politicias, including some of ur morons there, are giving apologies to the ISLAM WORLD. WHERE THE HECK IS THE ISLAMIC WORLD WHEN GROUPS LIKE HAMAS OR OSAMA HIMSELF DO KILL INNOCENT PPL? I DONT SEE THEM ON TV GIVCING APOLOGIES TO THE PPL, OR EVEN WORSE I NEVER SEE THEM TAKING RESPONSABILITY FOR WHAT THERI PPL DO.IF THEY HAVE THEIR CAT FIGHT WITH THE US AND EU, THEN BEAT AND KILL IF THEY WANT THE POLITICIANS BUT NO INNOCENT PPL.
MAHOMA? COME ON.....HE IS JUST ANOTHER FAG IN THE BLOCK!

[Craig Ranapia]

Of course, I'm still waiting for the "International Day of Anger" over the viciously anti-Semitic drool that appears in Islamist newspapers and websites acoss the globe. (And for the benefit of the moonbat readership, criticism of the state of Israel isn't, ipso facto, anti-semitic. Shit that looks like it was cut-and-pasted from Der Sturmer or David Duke's diary is.)

I'd really love to see "moderate" Muslims getting on Al-Jazeera and talking about the "responsibilities" of free speech when some iman gets face time for call for the massacre of homosexuals who are lower than pigs - a provocative and imflamatory insult given the beast's status in Islamic dietary law.

[Jeff]

I love America. I love that moonbats and wingnuts can bash one another silly without the use of a single I.E.D. I love that we can argue whether art is worthy of government subsidy or whether Dubya and Dick have crossed a line with their NSA antics and never fire a shot. I love that we can impeach a man for a blowjob and elect his wife to the senate. I love that we all agree at a base level of our DNA that flying planes into buildings full of civilians is beyond reprehensible.
I love every freedom we enjoy, and every edition of Meet the Press and Crossfire. I prefer not to offend most people. And, I choose to respect many, including those I disagree with. But, I am sick to my very soul at lunacy the world seems to tolerate in the name of Islam. During the World Wars we did not go to war against ideas or concepts. What IS up with this "War on Terror"? We fought the Germans and the Japs. And anyone allied with them. We didn't fight a war against just the Nazi party but not the Germans. We f*ckin' killed those Germans asses. And we bombed the snot outta those damn Nips until they surrendered. And, in both cases, we were lead by socially liberal democrats. We need to fight the Islamic nations that attack us or our allies. It is a War against Islam. They started it, and called it a holy war. Okay, game on. We should fire back and not stop shooting till the last towelhead is dead. Jihad that mutherf*cker! All this PC crap will never win peace. It won't even sustain peace in the short term. To have victory, we need to identify and vilify the enemy. Not coddle them, or fake empathy for the poor, poor Palistinians. What the f*ck??? The Muslim extremists and their "mainstream' collaborators are at war with the world. They attacked us. We better cut out the PC crap, and focus on a crushing defeat. That means calling a war a war. The minute those assholes blew up a bus in Israel, or boarded one of our jets on 9/11 they gave up any rights to be treated as civilized people. These are animals. They are monsters who murder children in the name of God. They are not entitled to any form of PC considerations because there is nothing, absolutely nothing 'Correct' about them. They behave in a way that leaves no choice but to have civilized nations rally together for a crushing defeat of their way of life. If we keep trying to pretend they are people deserving of respect and trust, we will lose everything and everyone we respect and trust. I would rather bend over backward to protect the civil liberties of Fred Phelps than to give one iota of credibility to Islam. And stop saying "Muslim Extremists" they are all extremists because their friggin families and friends support the violence. I say make fun of those assholes, draw all the pictures we want. Save the PC crap for the civilized people. Not these animals.
There is no circumstance, no previous oppression, no disinfranchisement, no loss of land or bad oil deal that would justify the acts that were carried out on 9/11 and Madrid and London, and in Israel for far too long. Real Political Correctness isn't really too difficult to figure out, come over here and sit with the humans. Not those vile animals putting bombs on kids.

[DSH]

I am still asking that "fundamentalist" question: What's the difference between Sharon, Robertson, and Osama?

They all see the same TEXT differently. Now Benedict XVI is "engaged." Does anyone have a clue?

Imagine: A foreign country comes to the U.S. and designates Alabama as a new country. All Christians MUST leave, so that Muslims can reside there. Think what the other 49 states must think?

On the other hand: Imagine: The only democracy in an entire region is open, but ONLY if you're a Jew. All others, please exit. Why can't I play? Because you aren't Jewish, that's why. Huh?

Then again: Imagine: The U.S. is a Christian nation. It says so in the Bible. We're gawd's anointed (harkening back to the paragraph above). So why did your gawd abandon you? Because we're a Christian/Jewish nation, and you're not. Huh?

Religion IS the opiate of the masses. It's one of the very FEW things Freud got right. But HE was a disenfranchised Jew. Well, we're gay, so what? Well, because. The prophets have spoken. Where are YOUR prophets? They're getting head. And yours?

[Gus]

This is a pretty telling admission of the real agenda of the Islamic world. Having lived in Denmark, I can assure you that Danes are generally unwilling to involve themselves in global battles, but do feel overwhelmed by the large number of unassimilated Muslims in their midst. These cartoons were probably viewed as harmless when first penned. Now it has become Salman Rudiesque. When will the great liberal masses of the West stand up to this nonsense? (Probably never! Did any of them stand up when the Nazis were dragging Jews and GAYS out ot their homes from 1937-1945?) No. They did not. They just counted the corpses and vowed "never again". What bullshit.

[Gus]

DSH, give up the meth, please.

[Jay Croce]

QUIT is the invention of Alex Limada, who seems to feel the need to get in the news, any way he can. Perhaps only in Berkeley, CA could people buy into his demented delusions. If he had his way, Jews in Israel would be slaughtered, and Palestinians would be given control of The State of Israel. From there, they would infect the world with terrorism, violence, and hatred. All non-Muslims would be their enemy. Since the Palestinians can't even agree among themselves, chaos would rule, and within a short time, some harsher, more evil and organized group would move in. Perhaps the Syrians, backed by the Iranians. Peace in the Middle East would be impossible, and the death toll would be unimaginable.

Alex Limada
quitpalestine.org
652 45th St
Oakland, CA 94609
510.645.7839
quitpalestine@yahoo.com

Here's one of Alex's better ideas. An invasion of a Berkeley Starbucks.

"About 25 queer settlers descended on a downtown Berkeley Starbucks on Saturday, August 17, 2003, claiming Berkeley as “a city without people for people without a city.” The group, organized by Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism (QUIT!), posted a banner proclaiming the reclaimed café “Queerkeley – A Prophecy Fulfilled.” They also erected homes (transformed “Palestinian civilian homes reclaimed from another street theatre action), lawn furniture, and signs reading, “It Works In Palestine, Why Not Here?” and “It’s Ours Because We Say So.” They erected plastic palm trees to “make the concrete bloom,” and gave patrons a tract explaining their religious claim to the land....."

He also thinks that the City of Berkeley should cease doing business with Israel. I can't imagine how much business could be conducted between Berkeley and Israel, but I guess it's largely symbolic. Unfortunately, it's also symbolic of who Alex Limada will deal with, to keep his name in the press.

"We are working with the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, Jews for Divestment, Global Exchange, Students for Justice in Palestine, and many other groups to get Israel added to the oppressive nations list."

You'll find plenty of communist and terrorist connections among those groups he mentions.

He's also against American involvement in Iraq. He describes the actions of our military there as "slaughter".

"Donate to the Stephen Funk Defense Fund. Stephen is a gay Filipino American who is being court-martialed for refusing to participate in the U.S. slaughter in Iraq."

Hmmm, a deserter in time of war... what might happen to this person? Not much.

"On September 6th, a military jury acquitted Stephen Funk of desertion and found him guilty of Unauthorized Absence for not reporting for duty at his San Jose, CA unit. The military sentenced Funk to six months in military prison, a bad conduct discharge, a reduction of rank and forfeiture of two-thirds pay."

Funk got the lightest possible sentence, too light if you ask me, and yet Alex Limada is still using this case as a bloody soapbox. Anything for publicity and fundraising.

Limada touts his involvement with Global Exchange. Here's what Global Exchange has to say about America.

"Finally, assaults against workers' rights to organize remain common. From farmhands in California to home care workers in Florida, workers who try to form trade unions are spied on, harassed, threatened, suspended, fired or deported. This sort of repression is intolerable since it violates the basic constitutional guarantee to freedom of assembly. Respect for basic liberties must not stop at the workplace door."

Doesn't sound much like the America I live in.

Here's Global Exchange on Iraq.

"The Iraqi military clearly did not even have the ability to defend its own capital, much less the strength to attack the U.S. or its neighbors."

Tell that to the Kurds or to Kuwait. I think you'll hear a different story.

QUIT, and Limada may be lame and toothless, but they back some dangerous characters, and spread a layer of half-truths and deception, that can leave people supporting terrorism, without even realizing it.

Sorry for the overly long post, but this is no laughing matter.

[Myackie]

I see quite a difference between the situations in Tibet, what happened in Kuwait and the current problems in Israel.

Tibet and Kuwait were invaded by aggressors. Israel, even though everyone conveniently forgets this, gained the territories in a DEFENSIVE WAR!!! They were invaded by Arabs...the Arabs lost. Israel offered almost immediately to return the newly "occupied" land to the LOSERS of the war (much to the astonishment of the planet) and was REJECTED!!! The arabs, even though they had their whiny asses kicked, refused to "recognize" that Jews had beaten them again.

John...if it were the other way around, if the arabs had won the war, most likely they would have killed every Jew they could get their slimy hands on. Israel is to be praised for the fact that the "palestinian" population has practically octupled since the six-day war. There were no hospitals or universities in gaza or the west bank prior to Israel. The infant mortality rate plummeted and life expectancy incrased under the "brutal occupation".

If I had to be "occupied"...I'd much rather be occupied by Israel than by any other country...moslem or christian.

The time has come for arabs to accept the fact that Israel will not just go away. The Israelis are there to stay. Accept reality, deal with the fact that you've lost EVERY war, and GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES. Instead of living in the past and collectively living in some fantasy world where you think you can beat Israel.

If the arabs can't behave in a civilized manner...than they don't deserve a country.

[hank]

These same "sensitive" folks never hesitate to lampoon and stereotype Americans or Jews. Allah forbid that anyone gives it back to them.

While here at home, we have Daddy Dobson trying to supress an episode of Will and Grace, because he says it "mocks the crucifixion." Meet the American Taliban.

[North Dallas Thirty]

While here at home, we have Daddy Dobson trying to supress an episode of Will and Grace, because he says it "mocks the crucifixion." Meet the American Taliban.

Um, no, hank. If we had the American Taliban, we wouldn't even have TVs, much less be arguing over programming on them. You and I would be at the bottom of arena floors buried in stones, and Britney Spears would not have tortured the American public with her numerous attempts to substitute boobies for musical talent.

I frankly agree with Dobson that the whole point of what they are doing is deliberately mocking Christians. They're trying to boost the ratings for a show that has gone south, and they lack the creativity to do an intelligent lampoon, instead going for shock value.

And also remember....the Taliban couldn't have been that bad, since if Democratic Party member, Senate candidate, and DNC endorsee Cindy Sheehan had her way, they'd still be in power.

Religion IS the opiate of the masses. It's one of the very FEW things Freud got right.

Actually, that is Karl Marx's quote, and it doesn't surprise me that you think it's "right".

[Richard]

As always I am stunned by the arrogant indifference of most to anti-Semitism. The Arab media can't make it through a week without posting editorial cartoons that viciously attack Jews and Judaism. Islam should be ashamed of itself on more levels than one could possibly dsecribe.

[Dan]

Religion is the opiate of the masses? Oy. Suddenly I'm back in high school taking that ridiculous philosophy class for 'gifted' kids. Buncha pseudo-intellectual, self-aggrandizing crap.

It is interesting, however, to see NDT turn into the resident fundy apologist. Is Dobson a threat to life and limb? No. But he does regularly issue fatwas against anything he considers ungodly and aggressively pushes his own christian ideology into areas where it has absolutely no business. How is his boycotting of NBC any different than the muslim boycott of all things Danish? But we're not just talking about free speech here, no sir. These fundamentalist zealots also want to destroy our country's rich history of scientific innovation as well. Stem cells? Don't go there. Research on the origins of the universe? If it goes back further than few thousand years, nuh uh. And now, it seems, they want the right to deny basic medical care to anybody who doesn't fit within their own christian worldview. Thank god the jews aren't trying the same bullshit or else we'd really be screwed.

Is NBC mocking christians? No. They're mocking those fundamentalist whackjobs who are slowly trying to turn this country into a theocracy. They may not be throwing molotov cocktails (yet), but in the end they can be just as dangerous.

Besides, I kinda thought cruci-fixins was kinda funny :)

[North Dallas Thirty]

Well, it seems we can now add Dan to the list of "control mechanisms" that I previously posted about on a similar topic.

And I will respond in a more direct fashion, Dan; if you think for one second that I can be cowed into not saying what I think by smearing me as a "fundy apologist", you are very, very wrong -- for several reasons.

First, your doing so demonstrates how little you know about my positions.

Second off, it demonstrates how devoted you are to your stereotypes of Christians and how little you know of the reality. Honestly, now. Do you think any Christian broadcasting network would air a section called, "Cruci-Fixin's"? That would be cheapening and mocking one of the deepest tenets of the religion. It would never happen. But if you're a hack screenwriter looking to pander to antireligious bigots, well.....when did truth ever come into appealing to the irrational?

Third off, your rant further deepens and makes more obvious the degree to which you are in thrall to your bigotry and stereotypes. For example:

These fundamentalist zealots also want to destroy our country's rich history of scientific innovation as well. Stem cells? Don't go there.

What you're basically saying is that scientific progress is more important than ethics. Fine. Start shrieking about how not being allowed to give babies teratogens in utero is impeding the scientific progress of studying birth defects, or how not being allowed to put children in complete isolation is impeding the scientific progress of studying psychological developments, or how not being allowed to fail to tell people they have cancer so you can study how it continues to grow is impeding the scientific progress of studying cancer. Heck, go argue against the scientific community's censure of Dr. Hwang Woo-Suk. Then go watch the movie The Island, which is all about unimpeded scientific progress, being allowed to grow whatever you want, whenever you want, and use it however you want.

So in short, Dan, I have no problem with saying that I agree with Dobson. You, obviously, must oppose everything Dobson says. Fine. In that case, Dobson opposes drinking drain cleaner. Better go chug some, just so you can show you're not a "fundy apologist".

[Seann]

While some muslims do take it a little too far in demanding revenge for these cartoons I think they were entitled to an apology. They got one and they should move on. There was an orginization that accepted the apology but for extremist I guess it wasn't good enough.

I know people call it PC and all other forms of crap but maybe we should avoid trying to anger people and respect their religious beliefs. It's not required but what's wrong with being considerate and courteous to another's faith. I know people are aware of the golden rule.

Religion is a very touchy subject. They invited protesters and the like. Maybe not the crazy one's but they had to be aware that by publishing the article that there was going to be an uproar and maybe that was their purpose.

I just wanted to add my two cents.

Keep up the Great work!

[Dixon]

"antireligious bigots"

Oh my, the irony. That one made me laugh.

[anapestic]

"Start shrieking about how not being allowed to give babies teratogens in utero is impeding the scientific progress of studying birth defects, or how not being allowed to put children in complete isolation is impeding the scientific progress of studying psychological developments, or how not being allowed to fail to tell people they have cancer so you can study how it continues to grow is impeding the scientific progress of studying cancer. Heck, go argue against the scientific community's censure of Dr. Hwang Woo-Suk. Then go watch the movie The Island, which is all about unimpeded scientific progress, being allowed to grow whatever you want, whenever you want, and use it however you want."

Your arguments would be a lot more compelling if you argued against what was actually said and not against something that no one is suggesting. Anyone can set up and tear down a straw man.

[Jay Croce]

In Syria today, Danish and Norwegian embassies were attacked and burned by crowds of angry Muslim radicals.

Over a cartoon.

It just speaks volumes.

[John (not the same John that posted earlier)]

To Gus and his comments about the Danes, specifically this: Did any of them stand up when the Nazis were dragging Jews and GAYS out ot their homes from 1937-1945?) No. They did not. They just counted the corpses and vowed "never again".

The Danes did stand up. They rescued nearly 8,000 Danish Jews from deportation to Nazi death camps in 1943. It is a truly inspiring story and I'm surprised that you, as a former resident of Denmark, were not aware of it.

[Dan]

Thank you, NDT, for vividly illustrating the religious right's hallmark 'scientific bullshit' argument method. You see, they go out of their way to find one insane/crackpot scientific study (one that has absolutely zero support in the scientific community at large) and hold it up as an indictment of the entire field. Stem cell research has the potential to cure countless debilitating diseases and involves the use of genetic material that would be otherwise discarded. It's amazing just how far the fundy nutjobs will go in misrepresenting real science.

And using a Michael Bay movie as an argument against science? Were you that hard up for examples?

[hank]

Of course I was using hyperbole in saying "Taliban". But it is a free speech issue.
Not everyone in the US is Christian. And those of us aren't, are feeling more and more pressure from these strident groups. If they object to something that they merely "hear" about but haven't seen, and then try to keep the rest of us from seeing it, it they are opening a door to very dangerous future for us all.
A little humor won't kill them. They don't have to watch it.

[hank]

sorry
"who" aren't...

[hank]

BTW Cindy Sheen may be out of her mind, but Chris Matthews is an idiot.

[hank]

Check out this link. They just like to riot and bunr flags. They don't even know their own history.

[hank]

And I forgot to post the link.
;0
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/

[Queer Conservative]

Dan, just fucking once, just once, I'd love for you to criticize Islam without bending over backwards trying to prove moral relativism by painting Christianity, Judaism, or anyother religion or philosophy as just as bad.

[Queer Conservative]

"While some muslims do take it a little too far..."

Congratulations Seann, you're the winner of the Understatement of the Eon" award.

[Dan]

Dan, just fucking once, just once, I'd love for you to criticize Islam without bending over backwards trying to prove moral relativism by painting Christianity, Judaism, or anyother religion or philosophy as just as bad.

Umm... I normally don't flog my own blog, but check out my latest blog entry.

And watch your language. This is a family operation here ;)

[sisignor]

Of course nobody but extremists would set fire to the Danish and Norwegian embassies. But the extremists are good, they achieve what they are looking for: upsetting the western world and bringing the tension between christians and muslims to yet a higher level. Just too bad that most people and politicians, and least of all the US president understand a shit of how to handle this. More guns and bombs don't fix this problem! You have to drain all support among moderate muslims for the extremist gruops. So Mal, get the damn cartoon off your blog and stop upsetting the ordinary muslim, it's blasfemi! And all americans, make sure you elect a president that at least has a passport the next time, somebody that has some kind of intellectual capability and can start a dialogue based on mutual respect. The muslims demand respect like everybody else. Quite simply respect.

[Myackie]

sisignor: they demand respect, sure, but they refuse to respect all other religions.

Isn't it a two-way street? If you demand respect, shouldn't you also respect others?

[owlish]

Of course you shouldn't respect others, if yours is the only True Way.

I still want Mohammed to get the full South Park treatment, maybe being in a love triangle with Satan and Saddam. They think some mild political cartoons are reason enough to burn some embassies [perhaps with extra cartoons thrown in by the Imans]? They ain't seen nothin yet.

And sisignor, eventually, more guns and bombs can fix the problem. [the problem being, we don't want to convert to Islam and live under sharia] We just would like to try to handle this with the least loss of life possible, whether in our civilians, our military, or our enemies.

[Kevin]

Calling on Denmark to apologize to Muslims (as if the nation of Denmark is responsible for this thing to begin with, and as if all Muslims agree with its meaning) for the truly outrageous and inexcusable riots that have happened is like expecting the Jews to apologize for Kristallnacht and to promise never, ever to offend and insult the poor German people with their pushy and disgraceful Star of David ever again...

I agree -- we are all Danes now, or liberty perishes. If these radicals want to wage war on western liberty within its own borders, well then bring it on.

[seth]

first of all, a political cartoon, no matter how offensive, is the equivelant of an editorial. its the opinion of the cartoonist, not denmark or the newspaper. people need to learn.

secondly, whoever is against israel is ignorant of the truth written in history. israel, conquered the west bank and gaza in a war. they revieced intelligence that all the arab countries were about to attack, so they told the US, Britian, and France that they were going to attack first or else they'd be blown apart. and they did and won. and then, on the jew's holiest of days, the arabs attacked on yom kippur without notice and the jews put them back to the borders where they came from, and farther. that is how they got the sinai, golan heights and other territories. after it was safe and egypt recognized israel, israel gave back the sinai. after it was safe with lebanon, israel gave back the golan heights. israel wanted to give land to the palestianians, but only if they promised to recognize israel, so israelis wouldnt live in fear of invasion. israel wants peace as much as palestinians do. they're waiting for the palestianians to step it up. after the disengagement of gaza, it is the palestinians turn to renounce violence and start with the roadmap.

[Malcontent]

As much distaste as I have for James Dobson, I would rather have people who get offended and respond by, oh, boycotting advertisers and sending out press releases than killing people and firebombing buildings. Mainstream Islam shows itself more and more incompatible with liberal Western traditions on a daily basis.

The cartoon stays.

[Jack Malebranche]

I still want Mohammed to get the full South Park treatment, maybe being in a love triangle with Satan and Saddam. They think some mild political cartoons are reason enough to burn some embassies [perhaps with extra cartoons thrown in by the Imans]? They ain't seen nothin yet.

Now THAT's something I'd like to see. Maybe Matt Stone and Trey Parker aren't up for the Rushdie experience, though. Can't say I blame them.

I would like to see America overflow with a glut of anti-Islamic art. Though, that would be a bizarre about- face for a lot of lefty artists. Who deserves to be blasphemed more? Maybe I'll try to whip something up...

[hank]

We should "respect" the arab world? Their cartoons are vicious compared to those cute little Danish jokes.
After 9/11 was there a word of "respect" or even remorse from them? Not yet. Not ever.
We are all Danish now.
PRINT THE CARTOONS EVERYWHERE.

[Queer Conservative]

Sisignor - you think the cartoons are offensive? Good. I make it a point to publish one regularly on my blog and will continue to do so. One right none of us possess is the right NOT to be offended. I agree with Mal, Islam is completely and utterly incompatible with liberal Western civilization. Muslims whine like toddlers for "respect" but they are incapable of giving it. Screw'em, their prophet, their Mullahs, their Mothers, and the camels they all rode in on.

[Jack Malebranche]

Here's my respectful portrait:

It's open season

I'll be able to get a clearer shot once it is dry, but I did it last night and I didn't want to miss the apex of its relevance.

[Queer Conservative]

Jack that is a wonderful likeness of prophet and followers.

[Jack Malebranche]

Thanks, I really tried to capture their essence.

[Malcontent]

Oh, my, thank you for not using epithets like "sand n***er" on my site!

[Robbie]

Pic: A+

Epithet: D-

I always try to make it very clear my issue is with Islam and the culture, not with a particular race of people. Having lived in Britain with many Arabs and Persians who have perfectly adapted to Western culture and government, I'd rather not peddle in racial remarks when it's clear skin color has no bearing on the matter. It's about ideologies and the willingness of people to stand up for liberal democracy, no matter what their ethnicity.

[anapestic]

The difference between using epithets like Jack uses and with lumping all people of one type together (treating Islam as a monolithic entity or attributing the recent actions to "mainstream" Islam) is only one of degree. Obviously, differences of degree matter, which is why we're all a lot more upset about embassy burnings than about the reactions of Dobson and his ilk, but it is still regrettable that you are fostering a climate where stereotypes can flourish. You might want to remember this thread the next time someone talks about gays as if we're all the same and all evil.

[Jack Malebranche]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

It's just a word. Sticks and stones. I'm all for saying out loud what other people say under their breath.

There are intelligent, sophisticated people of all races in the world who deserve my respect, and I would never suggest any sort of action against people solely based on race.

There are, however, those in every race who represent negative stereotypes to a 't.' They've earned their epithets.

For instance, I'm a firm believer that there are homosexuals, and then there are complete...

Same principle.

[Robbie]

Anapestic - I'm pretty comfortable saying the recent flurry of fun in the Middle East is mainstream Islam. I'm sorry, but it's the so-called "moderates" that are the aberration in that religion. When you have a few hundred million who are completely batshit, and only a few million in the West who seem normal, the few hundred million get the mainstream title.

Jack - I understand what you're saying perfectly. But, I still avoid the language. I get enough shit for being pseudo conservative as it is. I don't need to be giving out excuses to receive "You're a racist!" bs from people who think brown folk are incapable of learning democracy.

[Jack Malebranche]

And, anapestic...

Stereotypes flourish regardless. It's human nature. If people look at a population and see a large percentage of them doing one thing, they are naturally going to stereotype that population. It's a survival skill. There's a reason why a woman is going to clutch her purse and remain especially vigilant around certain minorities. It's not because she's racist. It's because she's not stupid.

Pretending stereotypes don't exist doesn't make them go away. The only thing that will change a stereotype is a widespread and lasting change of behavior among that population.

Having grown up in redneck country, and lived for most of my adult life in large cities, I've seen differences in the way people handle stereotyping. In small town USA, a lot of stereotypes grow from pure ignorance. In cities, stereotyping actually grows from experience, but it is also tempered by that experience. When I moved to LA, I remember being suprised that Persians are OK with being called Persians. I'd just never heard the term used for modern people--I didn't want to offend, so I had to check. In LA, I've never heard so many people talk smack about Persians--just not in the way you'd think. There is a whole huge Persian scene there, and they're known for a certain style that resembles the NYC 'guido' stereotype. Now, people in LA know this and talk about it all the time, but they also know tons of successful, sophisticated Persians, and they wouldn't think twice about hiring or befriending them. This is pretty much the way I feel about most races. Anyone worth holding an intelligent conversation with knows the stereotypes of their particular group(s) and can have a good laugh at the expense of the worst examples of the group(s). I never even knew there were stereotypes about Filipinos, for instance, until I was clued in by other Filipinos!

[anapestic]

There are not hundreds of millions of Muslims burning embassies or attacking anyone. There may be hundreds of millions who believe that using an image of Mohammed is blasphemy, but as long as they don't take action against the so-called blasphemers, what do you care? Treating everyone as if they're cut from the same cloth is a good way to encourage the sort of collective retribution that was advocated earlier in this thread.

And, Jack, thank you for the lecture on stereotypes. Explain to me how calling people "sand niggers" is a survival skill. You evidently see yourself as some sort of brave defender of free speech, but it is possible to defend free speech without resorting to bigotry.

[Jack Malebranche]

Anapestic -

Thank you for the off-the-cuff (and off-the-mark) armchair psychoanalysis.

If you didn't get my point, and you obviously didn't, you probably never will. That's fine.

[sisignor]

I am christian and Norwegian, I am very concerned about freedom of speech, and I am very upset that they burned our embassy in Syria. I am very well aware of the strong bonds between Norway and USA, and of all the support we have received from "over there". In spite of this, I have this deep anger against Bush. It is not difficult for me to understand that muslims look at him, and the western world, as an enemy. Bush is a greater threath to peace on earth than muslims. Why? For the same reason that he and his like are still fighting gays. They don't have a clue and their personal interest are best served by confrontation.

Now, look back at our christian history and you will find every parallell to how the muslims are acting now. They were killing, stealing, burning and raping in the name of god. Such actions are just as despicable and immoral now as they were then. No discussion. But don't try to argue freedom of speech in front of a mob that feel that we are offending them and their god. The muslim extremists are oursmarting you! They know how to use this insignificant event to their pursue their own goals!

We need a dialogue with the muslim world in order to drain the support for extremist groups. We need to be smarter than the extremist group in this global game of hate and support among the religous masses. And smart in this context has nothing to do with logical arguments that might be valid in the washington post or new your times, or in a university debate. It's all about appealing to the masses, simple messages, consistent messages and a lot of time to repair the damages that were done in the western world response to 9/11. Sorry, but the extremists outsmarted us there as well.

[Robbie]

We need a dialogue with the muslim world in order to drain the support for extremist groups.

How many decades has America fostered dialogue between Israel and Palestine?

Who is now in charge of the Palestinian government?

Mkay, then.

[Jack Malebranche]

Bush is a greater threath to peace on earth than muslims.

That's simply incorrect.

Bush will be out of office in less than 3 years. Muslim extremism has been a major threat to global security for decades.

[Joe.My.God.]

I'd say the greatest threat to world peace is the existence of Israel.

Cut 'em loose!

[Jack Malebranche]

To my suprise, Joe, I agree.

Islamo-fascism would still be a problem, but it would be interesting to see if it would be as extreme without the tension that the existence of Israel creates.

[anapestic]

I have no interest in psychoanalyzing anybody. And I understand your argument, Jack. Your saying that you only use the epithets for the members of the group that you don't approve of. I've heard that argument before, and I don't buy it.

And, Robbie, if you don't think that dialog is a good idea, what's your alternative? Kill them all and let God sort it out? Hamas didn't win because we fostered a dialog between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Hamas won because the other party was corrupt.

[Aatom]

The fall of the Soviet Union convinced the Afghani mujahadeen (led in part by Osama bin Laden) that they had toppled an empire. Imagine how they would be emboldened on their path to destroy the infidels of the world if Israel were to fall. It would be disastrous. Israel must not fall. Hating Jews is merely a piece of the Islamist puzzle, the larger picture is actually much more disturbing. They have their sites set solidly on us now, and 9/11 combined with the successful destruction of the Israeli state would give them the confidence to attempt much more than they are getting away with now. When will people admit to themselves that we are at war, but that only one side is committed to the total annihilation of the other?

[Robbie]

If the answer to extremism were simple dialogue, Hamas would never have been in a position to win an election in the first place.

What is the answer? No doubt a complex mixture of dialogue where productive, diplomacy when reasonable, sanctions when pressure is feasible, and war when some people who are a potential threat just aren't getting the message.

So, I suppose my answer would be D. All of the Above.

Dialogue's nice and all that, but words are nothing if you cannot back them up. You can yammer on about freedom until the cows come home. Only when backed by coercive force (be it economic or military) did freedom become reality for many nations. We in American get to have all the dialogue we want because we have a military that will whack anyone who would take it from us.

(Note: Any response that involves any variation of Bush's chilling of dissent will have to present arrest records resulting from their opinions posted on the internet. Otherwise, I reach through the monitor and slap them).

Signed,

Having-A-Strangely-Violent-Tendency-Day-Robbie

[Joe.My.God.]

Israel: We've got a right to exist because it's the word of god.

Joe The Militant Atheist: What else ya got? Anything?

[Jack Malebranche]

anapestic -

Your saying that you only use the epithets for the members of the group that you don't approve of. I've heard that argument before, and I don't buy it.

I'm not making an argument, I'm stating a fact. I'm an equal opportunity hater.

Robbie -

Yeah, you have been a little crazy today. I noticed that earlier. I wouldn't normally notice, but I've been hiding in my office, as the house is full of crazy Mexicans. (The not-in-laws)

My solution today is "nuke 'em now." It's time we started slaughtering barbarians like back in the old days, and letting others sort out the morality of it after the fact. Less American casualties if you make Tehran a crater. Look how the Japanese bounced back all civilized-like! Nukes are underrated.

I'm half kidding.

[Aatom]

what exactly is a militant atheist? i'm an atheist, and I don't have much of an impulse to evangelize for it. kind of misses the whole point, if you ask me.

[Robbie]

I'm on two hours of sleep, my sinuses are making my face feel like it's about to explode, and I'm running a strange fever. Cranky Robbie. Usually I avoid comments to posts altogether when I don't feel well, but I'm in just mood enough to respond them, but not a good enough mood to wear my personal language filter. Lucky, lucky readers.

[Jack Malebranche]

Aatom, I think it just means that you are armed and happy to shoot believers on site.

Or, maybe something more interesting, like this.

(I didn't read it, I'm just passing on something that I heard about through the grapevine.)

[Joe.My.God.]

I would characterize a "militant atheist" as someone who actively works to thwart the influence, control, reputation, visibility, and affluence of religion is all aspects of public life, either by action or speech.

[Jack Malebranche]

That sounds about right, though less fun.

I'm essentially in that camp, except for the 'works actively' part.

[sisignor]

... US fostering a dialog between Israel and Palestinians??? hey, wake up! The western world support of Israel, the disregard of Palistinian demands, and the local failures of secular oriented governments in the middle east at the beginning of the 20th century, are probably the most important reasons for the increasingly strong islamic fundamentalism, or political islam. They are using islam for political reason, not to fight the christian church. After they lost the war against Israel in 1967, there was a clear increase in support for political islam. It's quite interesting actually to start asking why we see these conflicts building up.

In Danish and Norwegian press the resent insurgencies are connected to the attack on Iraq, which was viewed by most muslims as an imperialist act that the western world did not have any right to do.

[Robbie]

The western world support of Israel, the disregard of Palistinian demands

Pushing all the Jews into the sea is generally a non-starter where I come from.

[Queer Conservative]

Let's not forget that Israel is the only Western, liberal, secular democracy in the middle east. The only in the place middle east where gays & lesbians don't have to live in fear for their lives. One of the very few places that Arabs have a right to vote for candidates of their choice. There's no comparison between Israel and the Arab nations. Israel wins in every category, hands down.

[Joe.My.God.]

There's no comparison between Israel and the Arab nations. Israel wins in every category, hands down.

All true. So what? How does that alter the fact that Israel is an intractable, unsolvable mess? We're pouring good gazillions after bad, have been for decades, and things are worse than ever. It's unfixable. We need to walk away and leave this lemon on the side on the road.

[Queer Conservative]

Sorry - Israel's only "problem" is that it is surrounded by an intractable Muslim population that's incapable of coexistence.

[Joe.My.God.]

Sorry - Israel's only "problem" is that it is surrounded by an intractable Muslim population that's incapable of coexistence.

Precisely! It's time that the West accepted that and MOVED ON.

[Jay Croce]

Jesus Joe, do you hear what you're saying? The Jewish people have been burned, shot, hung, tortured and shunned in practically every European country at some time or another. They have, by the grace of God alone, managed to survive slavery, extinction, expulsion, genocide, and everyday prejudice for over five thousand years. Before there was a State of Israel, Jews in many places were banned from voting, holding public office, or owning property. That's how they got into the banking and jewelry industries. When you know you have no permanent home, you have to keep your assets liquid.

Israel is the permanent home of the Jews. Traditionally, historically, biblically, and finally, home. If Israel falls, you will see an Armageddon. If the warring factions of Arabs don't have Israel as a common enemy, they will blow each other off the map. Without Israel as an ally, the US will never have a secure supply of oil. Our military bases there are strategically important, and up until the Iraq war, Israel was the proving ground for all of our new weapons.

I don't know what made you hate Jews, Joe, but if you bother to learn anything about world history and politics, you'll become a staunch supporter of our friends in Israel.

[Myackie]

the arabs have lost EVERY war they've had with Israel. What makes you think it won't happen again? I think it's really unlikely that Israel will not go down without a fight...and a huge fight.

This is the weirdest situation...it's the only time in history that the LOSERS of the war dictate the terms of surrender. I guess it's because the winners of the war are Jews. That's the only thing I can think of.

[Joe.My.God.]

*Sigh*

It pains me to state something so obvious, but it IS possible to have one opinion about Israel and another about Jews. My opinion about Jews? I don't give a crap about them. Or Christians. Or Muslims. Or Wiccans. Or Falun Gong. Or Scientologists. I despise religion and the religious. But even more than that, I despise political decisions based on what the religious demand.

Now excuse me, I've got to go slaughter a chicken and soak the bones in some voodoo sauce, or something equally meaningful.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Thank you, NDT, for vividly illustrating the religious right's hallmark 'scientific bullshit' argument method. You see, they go out of their way to find one insane/crackpot scientific study (one that has absolutely zero support in the scientific community at large) and hold it up as an indictment of the entire field. Stem cell research has the potential to cure countless debilitating diseases and involves the use of genetic material that would be otherwise discarded. It's amazing just how far the fundy nutjobs will go in misrepresenting real science.

Um, hardly. Before the truth was known, Dr. Hwang Woo-Suk was the darling of the scientific community, many times over, and was used as an example for why the US needed to drop billions of dollars into stem cell research.

So in short, this isn't some "insane/crackpot". This is the person you used as proof for why you needed no ethical restraints whatsoever, and he turned out to be a liar who faked his results. Frankly, I find it amusing that when I point that out, you start screaming about how I'm "anti-science". Who's the fundamentalist here?

Oh, and by the way, I am not opposed to science or to stem cell research. I am opposed to unethical experimentation or the destruction of human life to perform stem cell research. And I refuse, absolutely refuse, to treat a human embryo, which I see as another potential you, as "genetic material" to be exploited. You might as well let me argue that, because your organs could save countless lives if they were implanted in other people who needed them, rather than hoarded up in you, that I should be allowed to harvest them from you against your will.

[Queer Conservative]

JMG: I despise religion and the religious.

Really? I had no idea. Don't be shy.

[Jay Croce]

Joe, I still don't believe you're an idiot. I think you're just plain contrary. I think if everybody else was against Israel, you'd be for it. Just to be contrary.

[Myackie]

check out Michelle Malkin's site today...

http://michellemalkin.com/

[Jack Malebranche]

I don't think suggesting that Jews don't have a God-given right to a patch of land is anti-Jewish, and it's kind of lame to suggest that.

[Aatom]

Of course not, Jack, just as you can't accuse every conservative that is concerned about the "sanctity of the family" as being anti-gay. But there is a hell of a lot of overlap.

[Jamie]

Umm, it's kind of inherent, Jack. One of the basic tenets of Judaism is that they are a chosen people who were directly given the promised land by God himself. So, to deny them the land is to deny them their faith, at least in their eyes.

[Aatom]

that's a weak line of reasoning, Jamie, as it's essentially the same logic being peddled by rioting Muslims right now. Plus, that particular piece of real estate is holy to 3 different religions, so it's a bit disingenuous to favor one of those religions over the others.

Having won the land war fair and square several times over, however, the Jews do have a legal right to it at this point. There's a very simple term for anti-Israel Arabs: sore losers.

[Jack Malebranche]

One of the basic tenets of Judaism is that they are a chosen people who were directly given the promised land by God himself. So, to deny them the land is to deny them their faith, at least in their eyes

In their eyes, perhaps. So, then, does everyone who believes their god gives them the right to a swatch of land automatically get that land? Is that a notion that rational people really need to take seriously? A deed from God?

Saying that religious beliefs don't entitle the Jews to real estate isn't anti-Jewish. It's just pluralism. You can't validate someone's claim to land on a religious basis without also validating their religion and, especially in this case, invalidating other religious claims on said real estate. Land is land, unless you're saying one religious belief system is right and the other is wrong. I'd favor Jews over Islamists any day, but that has to do with behavior and the way their religions affect the ability of others to hold their own beliefs--not because I believe one religion is more 'correct.' I think they are both full of shit. Jews don't impact my right to think they're full of shit, which I cherish. Islamists are not so tolerant, and current events demonstrate that tidily.

[Jack Malebranche]

Having won the land war fair and square several times over, however, the Jews do have a legal right to it at this point.

As long as they can keep it on their own, without the assistance of the entire Western world, they have complete rights to it. It's established. I think the best thing the West could do would simply be to let Isreal and Palestine deal with each other, and stay completely out of it.

[Queer Conservative]

Keep in mind - Israel was all set to share the land 50/50 according to the UN Partition Plan. The Arabs response? Well, I think we all know what that was.

[Joe.My.God.]

I think the best thing the West could do would simply be to let Isreal and Palestine deal with each other, and stay completely out of it.

Yes. To infinity.

[Robbie]

Tch, people around here seem to be under the highly mistaken impression Manifest Destiny is over. Over? Never. Simply postponed by various historical obligations.

You hear that, Canada?! We're coming for you!

[Queer Conservative]

I don't know Robbie - Annexing Canada would be sucking up like 30 million more Democrats. Is it worth it?

[Joe.My.God.]

You hear that, Canada?! We're coming for you!

But only the first 100 miles or so. After that, there's what?

[Robbie]

People do realize that leaving Israel and Palestine to it without Western involvement would be very, very, very bad for the Palestinians and other assorted Arab states.

Which, if that's the way you want it, no problem. But I'll need some incentive here to go along with this. Basically, if the Left will agree to no longer subject us to their endless "Free Palestine!" pseudo-socialist pap, I'll support withdrawing from the conflict and letting the Israelis wipe the map with them.

The Solar Mirror Formerly Known As Tehran could be a brilliant tourist attraction as well.

[Robbie]

But only the first 100 miles or so. After that, there's what?

It's the principle of the thing, damnit. Why do people want a swath of desert? It's the spiritual mystery of the doing.

[Queer Conservative]

And the world's largest sheet of glass (formerly the city know as Damascus), and "Mecca-Viv" the worlds largest take-away Kosher Deli.

[Queer Conservative]

Actually, Israel took a desert and turned it into some of the most productive farmland on the planet. The neighboring Arab states are still...beachy, only with out the water.

[Jack Malebranche]

Basically, if the Left will agree to no longer subject us to their endless "Free Palestine!" pseudo-socialist pap, I'll support withdrawing from the conflict and letting the Israelis wipe the map with them.

I'm game.

The Solar Mirror Formerly Known As Tehran could be a brilliant tourist attraction as well.

Now you're just talking sexy.

[Joe.My.God.]

Ah, so you guys think that Israel would use U.S. supplied nuclear weapons to defend their country? Even though it would make the place unliveable for everybody?

It's a good possibility and certainly gives me pause in regard to my otherwise glib "Cut 'em loose" philosophy. Since I was about 25 years old, back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, I've believed that if the world comes to a violent end during my lifetime, Israel will be the cause.

[Robbie]

All that reflective glass in the region, sending solar heat back into space. Perhaps it will diminish global warming. Hey, it's a plan everyone can get behind.

[Robbie]

I think if Iran got a hold of a nuclear weapon and Israel felt sufficiently threatened, nuclear warfare might be a very real possibility. It's the most volatile region on earth. If a wide-scale war is going to break out, that'll be the place to do it.

[Jay Croce]

Israel is definitely the big dog, being kept on a short leash, because of it's alliance with America. Policy makers here fear that if Israel wiped out it's enemies, they'd either be seen as too agressive or too powerful to remain our freinds.

O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,-
Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue-
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy ;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Shakespeare "Julius Caesar"

[Richard J. Rosendall]

Hey, thanks for the link to my FrontPageMag.com article and to the Independent Gay Forum. I am bookmarking your blog; it's quite entertaining.

Rick Rosendall
Washington, DC