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April 19, 2006

Comments

Jamie

I hope he raises a quadrillion dollars.

Playing "smear the queers" isn't an agenda, either, Mal, but the Republican party doesn't shy away from using THAT little tactic to drum up as much money as they possibly can.

This letter wasn't meant as a recital of Gore's agenda. It was meant as a slap in the face to those who are still so blind and deaf as to buy the bullshit this administration is peddling.

How easily you dismiss every single talking point that comes from the left, yet very few from the right, even though this administration has proven itself corrupt and incompetent.

Every time you post some crap like this I see you as less of a moderate and more of a hard-line conservative, no matter what you call yourself. I must say I'm not surprised, but I am quite disheartened. I know pre-conceived notions are hard to shake, but give it a shot, would you please?

Uh-oh. I have a feeling I'm about to be banned.

Tommy

Oh Lord, Jamie, If your going to read this blog you know where Mals blind spots are and jumping up and down in the blind spots only means another endless string of fruitless political non-dialogue. The first two paragrphs of your post would have made for fine and pithy rejoinder or you could have posted the latest RCCC screed. The rest just leads to 'I know I am but what are you.'

Queer Conservative

I doubt you'll be banned Jamie.

Mal is spot on about Gore though. The man worried more about the color of his neckties in 2000 than any of the issues, and refused to use his biggest campaign asset - William Jefferson Clinton.

The Republicans are definitely not the party I wish they were - or that they could be - and they've definitely jumped from the conservative track. But you have to hand it to them - they have a message and they stick to it. One may not like all of their agenda (I certainly don't), but having a strong one is the first step toward winning an election. The Dems would do well to learn that lesson. Oh, and lesson number two for the DNC: elections are won between the coasts - not on them.

Jamie

Hardly. I like Mal and agree with him quite a bit, usually, but I honestly think I'm much more (IMHO) of an actual "moderate." Smack dab in the middle. I'm conservative on abortion, gun rights, state sovereignty (even when it works against gay national movements) and most fiscal matters, but liberal on most other social matters. And sometimes my opinions change. I've seen that capacity for change in Robbie a few times, but not so much with Mal.

So when I see a post that in one breath says, "I'm a moderate libertarian," then takes the stance that a typical fundraising letter (both sides put these things out regularly) is an attempt to establish an actual agenda--well, I find that disturbing and I wouldn't be honest if I didn't say something about it.

Frankly, I don't think Gore will be the one to set the agenda. But he's a good name for fundraising, though, and that's what this was about.

Jamie

That "Hardly" was in response to Tommy. I didn't know QC had posted.

The Republicans are definitely not the party I wish they were - or that they could be - and they've definitely jumped from the conservative track. But you have to hand it to them - they have a message and they stick to it. One may not like all of their agenda (I certainly don't), but having a strong one is the first step toward winning an election. The Dems would do well to learn that lesson. Oh, and lesson number two for the DNC: elections are won between the coasts - not on them.

And I agree with every single bit of that statement, QC. Now if only someone could wean you off of Ann Coulter . . .

Dan

It's good to see both Mal and QC reminisce on the halcyon days of the Clinton Administration. You remember those time, don't you? When all we really had to worry about was the prezzie's predeliction for pork pie?

Those were the days, weren't they? :)

Jordy

Glad I was able to get this political discussion rolling. Gays need to get more involved in political discussions or we'll be up shit creek in concentration camps soon.

I'm a registered Independent and have a feeling if we don't get a third party organized by 2008 it will be more of the same and worse. We're out of time now but the Dems must get control of the house and/or Senate in 2006 then we can really worry about a President that we can trust. I doubt Gore is it. He wimped out in 2000 while Tom Delay and his gang of thieves protested the Florida vote count and now he wants money. Sorry, no way Al!

Thanks to Al and the Dems, 9/11 was allowed to happen and I guess taking control of the Middle East was a job best suited for the the sadistic, right wing, neocon baby killers. They got what they wanted and we are stuck with thousands of dead soldiers, innocent civilians, record high gas prices, out of control deficits, mad cow, bird flu, chemtrails and totally unprepared for another natural disaster. WTF? Who is going to save this nation? Not Jesus and not Al Gore.

Josh

Wait, did you just blame gas prices, mad cow, bird flu, and chemtrails in Bush? How was he responsible for the behavior of an international commodity market, the emergence of a crippling disease in Europe, a potentially deadly disease in Asia, or a silly conspiracy theory? (And "9/11 was allowed to happen?" Are you serious?)

Also, anyone else notice that most moderates tend to label other moderates as working for "the other team," seemingly without notice of their own biases? Mal supports a few principles of 94 republicanism (the closest we've come to libertarian principles in government in decades), therefore he is a "hardline conservative." That doesn't make any sense. At all.

Josh

Umm, "on Bush." Blame it on Bush. Sorry kids.

Queer Conservative

I posted over on my blog recently about the possibility of the Democrats winning something in 2006 even it's just one house. It could well happen and I'm not so sure it would be a bad thing. Although they do have an uphill battle and no one to lead the charge.

The "halcyon days of the Clinton Administration" were good for one thing: focusing the conservatives attention. It's good to play on the offensive from time to time.

Jamie

Well, Josh, I freely admit my biases on issues, and actually had them listed above before I realized how long my comment would be. But for your edification:

I am conservative on abortion, gun rights, the sovereignty of states rights--even when it goes against my own interests--, and most fiscal issues.

I am for a flat tax as opposed to this graduated nonsense we currently go through.

I'm liberal on gay marriage, social security, and other issues.

I also write articles both condemning and supporting (as appropriate) politicians of any stripe when the situation calls for it.

So if you have a question as to just how moderate I actually am, please feel free to ask.

Jordy

"Wait, did you just blame gas prices, mad cow, bird flu, and chemtrails in Bush? How was he responsible for the behavior of an international commodity market, the emergence of a crippling disease in Europe, a potentially deadly disease in Asia, or a silly conspiracy theory? (And "9/11 was allowed to happen?" Are you serious?)"

Call me crazy but please gurl....I'm not blaming all that on Bush, he's just a coked-up, drunk puppet. He is a tiny part of a very sinister group of evil people that don't care if they ruin this planet or the quality of life of those who manage to survive each day.

whatreallyhappened.com is a great resource.

BTW, Bird flu is a joke, Rumsfeld just made 5 million off of his Tamiflu stock and the CDC says it's not a threat to humans. Hahaha, scared you!

Do you know who was in control of the military exercise that also occurred on 9/11? Doesn;t take a rocket scientist to know, those towers were destroyed with a controlled demolition. The collapse of #7 proves it.

Wake up people and stop being distracted by missing white women and trashy celebrity gossip. Open your mind!

Aatom

I opened my mind a long time ago to the possibility that conspiracy theories are almost always delusional and self-serving. Especially ones that require as much pretzel-twisting logic as the 9/11 ones. How many Jihadists have to scream and yell their intentions to you before you start taking them at their word? Why would the government want to construct an elaborate hoax to convince us that there are enemies out there when there ARE actual, flesh & blood enemies out there, quite openly plotting to kill as many innocent people as they can, all in the name of erecting a new Islamic empire, crushing all infidels in the process?

The irony of criticizing the Dems for not having their act together, and in the next breath tossing out moonbat ideas like 'gay concentration camps' and 9/11 conspiracies, is too absurd to believe. I mean, you have to be kidding me, right? You make Al Gore look eminently reasonable by comparison.

Josh

Oh, Aatom, we're just blinded by the self-hating kool-aid. Or some similar conglomeration of hyphenated insults.

Queer Conservative

Unless you can print out the pages of we'renutz.com whatreallyhappened.com and use it as toilet paper...it's not much of a resource. It's no more legitimate than the "Clinton Mafia" theories during the 1990s. It's all very Lydon LaRouche-y.

The moonbat conspiracy theories about 9/11 being an "inside job" and "Bush is the anti-christ and Rove is his prophet" B.S. can be lumped right in with what Mal said about the "stolen elections" meme.

Queer Conservative

That's "Lyndon" LaRouche-y.

Josh

Not to mention these insidious "chemtrails" and mad cow cases started under Clinton, which would mean both parties are in on this grand new world order-style conspiracy. OMG! Our entire political structure is arrayed against us!

louis

If by even so much as a slight lean in its favor, how the GOP of today still manages to drum up the support of some, namely from some of the brightest among you post modern libertarians/moderates, is beyond me and has truly been one of the biggest, most horrific shocks of my life! Incredulously, I have witnessed it time and time again from as far back as when Bush was governor, though I'll never be able to make any sense of it. What a woeful sign of the times.

Malcontent

Every time you post some crap like this I see you as less of a moderate and more of a hard-line conservative, no matter what you call yourself.

If I weren't busy earning the salary that my various government squander half of, I would link you back to dozens of posts where I have criticized individual Republicans and so-called "conservative" positions on issues.

When you asy you are "conservative" on abortion, Jamie, what exactly does that mean? In essence, I am pro-choice because I am not comfortable with excessive government intrusion into anything, but as a libertarian, I also beileve that life is a fundamental right. So I favor restrictions on abortion in the third trimester, I think partial-birth abortion is murder, and I support reasonable restrictions, such as parental notification. Does that, then, put me to the left of you?

I know what fundraising letters are. I worked in politics for 10 years. My main point with this post is that the letter -- written by the hapless Al Gore, who has thrown in four-square with the lunatic fringe represented elsewhere in this thread -- is symptomatic of Democrats' intellectual bankruptcy these days.

I would happily support a Democrat who represented principles such as equality for all Americans, a strong internationalist foreign policy, limited government, entitlement reform, tax simplification (and preferably reductions, although I'd take a revenue-neutral but simplified tax code over what we have any day), greater freedom for scientists (e.g., none of these bullshit stem-cell restrictions), etc. etc.

I really don't think I have shown myself to be especially inconsistent. And I'm not going to stop bashing Republicans just because there are some out there who think I'm not bashing Republicans muscularly enough.

And similar to QC, I think it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the Dems won at least one house this year. It would impose some fiscal constraint on the drunken sailors that are now running the place. And it is one major reason we were able to balance the budget the last time.

Queer Conservative

Trilateral Commission! Trilateral Commission!

Sqwaaak!

Council on Foreign Relations! Council on Foreign Relations!

Sqwaaak!

Illuminati! Illuminati!

Boo!

Jamie

Actually, Mal, I think you just might be to the left of me on abortion. Really, I don't think my opinion on the subject amounts to much, since I will certainly never be the cause of pregnancy, nor will I ever have an abortion, but here it is: while I do think an individual's body should be inviolate, I also think that applies to the fetus after a certain stage. I'm not sure what that stage is, but I'm thinking nerves have to be at least partially developed. But, aside from keeping a rape victim from having to carry the offspring of a madman inside her, the whole concept of abortion offends me deeply.

The act of having sex is a choice, and pregnancy is a known consequence. The rate of abortion in this country is not reflective of rape, incest, etc. It occurs far too often to be excused. Glad I'm not a woman. (Well, for other reasons, too, obviously.)

So yes, I'm pretty damned conservative on that issue. But one issue does not encapsulate my sociopolitical views.

My main problem with your post, Mal, is that you imply that Gore was attempting to deliver an agenda when clearly he was not. You're better than that, and it's disappointing. There's enough spin out there already.

Tommy

Jamie, I know you like Mal. I know, you know, he knows that the right sends out hurtful fundraising skreeds. I know you have seen his prediliction to rag on "the Left." (I rag on him for this prediliction.)

All I am saying is that:

"Every time you post some crap like this I see you as less of a moderate and more of a hard-line conservative, no matter what you call yourself. I must say I'm not surprised, but I am quite disheartened. I know pre-conceived notions are hard to shake, but give it a shot, would you please?

Uh-oh. I have a feeling I'm about to be banned."

Seems more than a little over-the-top, in the more moderate than thou, camp.

And louis, I feel your pain(at least, I understand it).

Malcontent

I hate to reiterate myself, Jamie, because there's sort of a scolding tone in your comments that I don't think is warranted. Gore's email is merely a symptom of a party that has lost its moorings.

I don't always expect fundraising letters to contain policy agendas, but you know what? They often do. I see far more on the GOP side, and they're always talking about "joining my efforts to get good judges on the court, lower taxes, blah blah blah." I know it is as much a function of the GOP having a national leader (Bush) and Dems with no clear leader (Howard Dean? Kerry? Pelosi? Reid?), so it's easier to aim barbs at a single guy.

But still, c'mon. Give me a reason to support you, not to hate a lame duck.

Malcontent

And as long as it has been brought up, I would like some examples of how Robbie is more willing than I to change his mind.

Queer Conservative

Leviticus 17:14 says "...the life of every creature is its blood." Rudimentary blood cells begin flowing in the 7th week of gestation, and the liver begins producing red blood cells in the 11th week.

Yes, it's off topic a bit, but I thought it was interesting.

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