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December 20, 2005

Comments

o

Ick!

North Dallas Thirty

LOL.....and what's even scarier, Robbie, if anyone were to sue them or otherwise try to stop the performance, along would come the ACLU.

Why not? They're already claiming that putting up a website detailing exactly how to lure in, tie up, rape, murder, and hide the bodies of children doesn't actually encourage people to go do it.

What makes it even better for those in the gay left that claim we need the ACLU as "allies" and pump thousands of dollars to them.....those same pedophiles claim "gay rights" as part of the reason they should be allowed to do it.

Gus

Good post Robbie--you nailed it! I guarantee you that conservative Atlantans who read about this will naturally assume it is a gay play and a gay issue, further demonizing our community. Pedophilia (and incest) is not unique to the gay community and is certainly nothing to write a play about. Maybe the apocalypse really is upon us.

hank

Thank God I don't work the theater anymore.
What a stupid disgusting idea for an entertainment.
I can't imagine a producer looking at the idea and giving it a green-light.
And yet, I'll bet FALLSETTOS on paper, seemed horrible and unwatchable, but in reality was powerful and moving.

Who would sue to stop a play?

The Cathokic Church went balistic over Terrance McNally's CORPUS CHRISTIE, and mangaged to help sell out it's whole run.

If a play's no good people won't go.

Jack Malebranche

See, this is what pisses me off about the "art" community. They pick "controversial" topics even if there is almost no redeeming value, because it will "shock" people - namely people who aren't in the artistic community

Who said art had to have redeeming value? Art is not necessarily a community service.

I guess most of the things I enjoy are fairly dark and require a certain sense of humor. While, as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not a fan of musicals...I'm also happy to let artists make art. I mean, I make (and sell) velvet paintings of people like Adolf Hitler and serial killers...so I guess I fit into that category. I make them because they make me laugh. And people who buy them get the joke.

But one of the most interesting things to me about doing things that are offensive is that it really does encourage an analysis or discussion of why people are offended. The stuff here is a good example...

http://www.unpopart.org

Those folks delight in messing with the lefties and feminists.

I'm no fan of pedophilia, but one of the best films I've seen recently (even, gasp! a 'gay' film) is "Mysterious Skin." One of the things I found most interesting about it was the very fact that the pedophile was not demonized (even though he made me wince). It wasn't as black and white as inhuman monster vs. victim. And the two victims reacted in vastly different ways.

Anyway, I'd rather see people questioning 'what everyone with half a brain knows is wrong' than see absolutely everyone just nodding along. People are free to object, of course, but it would be more productive to wait and see how things are handled and make an intelligent criticism based on the work produced. I think adults should be able to produce and watch the most depraved, insane thing possible (within the bounds of consent), and if you don't want to...that's fine, too.

Jack Malebranche

Oh, yeah... one more thing. People aren't broken. They've always been this way, and they will be for as far as I'm able to forsee. And all of the righteous indignation in the world won't change that. No matter what 'side' it comes from. As a friend of mine is fond of saying...

"History is pornography for misanthropes."

Robbie

Jack, we can have this debate about many a thing - but never pedophilia.

I am un-bend-able on the topic.

People can watch whatever they please. I'm certainly not advocating a ban on the material. I am simply condemning the crassness and incomprehensible attitudes of the people in the article.

"Cheering?" And "Happiness" was a comedy? I understand the many variations and nuances in the word comedy, and not a single one of them applies to that highly disturbing film. And the woman saying some people might think it's campy.

Pedophilia can be many things, but if you're even edging towards camp, you need to boxed about the ears a few hundred times.

It is painfully transparent these people have no experience with pedophilia, its effects, or its victims, else they'd not have such a cavalier attitude about the material. And that "We're not gonna back down," stance is so typical. "Sure, what we're doing is total shitty, but what did you think we'd have? Common sense? Gahahahaha! You silly, naive non-artist people."

Certainly some things can be done in bad taste and still work as art and performance. When the original movie version of The Producers came out in the late 60's, the musical number "Springtime For Hitler," was the height of bad taste. And yet, it worked. Brooks knew exactly what he was doing.

These people from the article? They honestly do not come off as folk who have the slightest inkling of what they're doing. They want to "stir up buzz."

Damn straight I'm going to be self-righteous about that. What can I say, pedophilia is just one of those topics for me. I don't think fucking children is great musical material. People are broken, they have always been broken, and I'm not going to stand up applaud when they parade their dysfunction and lack of simple respect across the stage.

But, hey, your mileage may vary.

Jack Malebranche

Well, as I said...very few things, to my taste, are good musical material.

I'd be the last person to endore pedophilia. The boundary of adult consent is the rational control which allows things like...homosexuality...to flourish without harming young people. Adults make their own decisions. We define adults and hold them responsible for those decisions. Children are not deemed fully able to give that consent, so they must be protected, in part, to protect our rights as adults.

But, well, ANY naturally recurring human phenomena should be able to be discussed. And discussion includes art. (Whether or not musicals are art is an entirely different topic) I just thought your call to 'let the theater owners know what you think' without seeing how the subject was handled was eerily similar to virtually every piece of attention grabbing sub-debate created by pundits, activists and talk show hosts on the basis of press releases alone. Isn't that what we see all of the time? "Oh the horror! Someone may put on a stupid play I'll never see that I find offensive from thousands of miles away! I must protest!"

I'm playing Devil's advocate here, but surely you can see the similarities... Commentary is one thing. Asking people to harass theater owners in a distant city is another thing entirely.

The key issue here seems to be the mockery of a serious problem.

But is a play encouraging pedophilia? Saying it's OK? Or just working with an idea to please an audience that would probably have a good appreciation for early John Waters? Pedophilia, like murder and cannibalism, top the list of taboos, and as such, handled in a certain way, can be entertaining and provocative. Hank recently mentioned the musical "Sweeny Todd." Are murder and cannibalism amusing to you? Is pedophilia worse than murder? Funny that the mere mention of this theater piece sparked this very discussion. And yet, it has no redeeming value?

Whether this play goes on or not, some upstanding Republican dad who pays his taxes and 'sports the war will molest one of his kids this week. No matter how many people protest a stupid musical. That's serious. It can't be helped. It's always happened. You can only punish the perps and help the victims.

People aren't broken. They haven't always been broken. They're just people. Asking them to be something else is trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Have you ever read "The Wanting Seed?"

Emerson

And knowing the NEA, I'm not entirely sure they aren't.

Actually, Robbie, I'm pretty sure you don't know the NEA anymore. They are now limited to funding Shakespeare performances in schools (very American, right, since we don't have our own playwrights), jazz, and folk art. Not exactly the boogey-man-agency they used to be.

hank

But there ARE American playwrights. They just don't stand a chance now, after the idiots who were allowed to give the grants, did them all in by funding piss pictues, Karen Findly,and various other low lifes. It's a shame. Our art scene is gonna be just as interesting as Swedens'. yawn

Emerson

Hank, that's the very irony I was alluding to. The national arts funding system is broken when the feds have a major initiative to support the presentation of 17th-century British drama. A poorly structured granting agency (from the beginning), stupid decisions, socialist inclinations in the arts community, and almost universal public disinvestment from non-commercial cultural production are the culprits.

hank

It's sadly true. I remeber seeing NEA funded "artists" in the eighties. It was The Emperor's New Clothes, I swear.
All these people watching an alarm clock for half an hour, and then...guess what? It RANG! Marvelous!
I thought I gone crazy or something. I didn't get it. But I didn't get alot (like the disco scene).
I stay home alot.;)

Craig Ranapia

OTOH, is this any more offensive that the round to glowing MSM puff pieces marking the 50th anniversary of 'Lolita'? It's been slightly flesh crawling watching critics try to explain why the first-person apologia of a paedophile isn't *really* obscene.

Queer Conservative

Repeat after me everyone: "Pedophilia is baaaaad." That doesn't mean it can't be treated on the stage or screen, it doesn't mean it isn't a topic worth discussing. But as a "quirky" musical that'll leave you "cheering," no.

Jack Malebranche

QC - Thanks. I think we all needed some moral guidance there.

Queer Conservative

You'd be surprised how many people do.

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